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CNN on Richmond Police Department Harassment Investigation
There was a segment on CNN’s “Paula Zahn Now” show yesterday that continued some previous discussions of racism in America. Part of it dealt with the Richmond Police Department harassment claim. A very short portion of an interview with me was included. The full transcript can be found at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0701/29/pzn.01.html, and the portion relating to Richmond is copied below.

If you were looking for an investigative piece with substance, this is not it.

ZAHN: We are bringing words as weapons out in the open tonight. I'm talking about slurs used to express hatred of any group. And I want to warn you, you're about to hear one in this next report.

Accusations of bigotry are causing a huge uproar in a northern California police department with a long history of racial tension. Several high-ranking black officers say the department's chief is creating a climate of intolerance and using offensive, racially- charged words.

Ted Rowlands has that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): When it comes to crime, Richmond, California, is one of the worst cities in the state. In 2005, according to the FBI, Richmond had the state's second highest murder rate per capita. The northern California city also has a history of problems with police force racism, which is the subject of Richmond's latest dilemma.

Either these eight longtime cops, three captains, four lieutenants, and a sergeant, are lying, or this newly-hired police chief is guilty of what seems to be outrageous examples of racism.

CHRIS MAGNUS, RICHMOND POLICE CHIEF: I don't engage in racial- based joking. I've heard some of that in this organization. Some of that has actually come from the individuals who are involved in this lawsuit. ROWLANDS: Police chief Chris Magnus is accused of telling racial jokes in front of black officers and using racial bias in hiring. Magnus, who has more than 25 years of law enforcement experience, came to Richmond last year from Fargo, North Dakota.

The trouble began after he hired two assistant chiefs, one of them actually a minority, a Latino man, and the other a Caucasian woman. But several African-Americans were passed over, and now the eight black officers are claiming that the new chief is a racist. One officer claims in a written complaint that Magnus has used racial slurs during his short time on the job, including the word "jigaboo" while telling jokes.

(on camera): An independent investigation has been launched to try to figure out if this is a case of discrimination or if it's just a case of sour grapes.

CHRISTOPHER DOLAN, ATTORNEY: The allegations are not sour grapes here.

ROWLANDS (voice over): Christopher Dolan is an attorney hired by the black officers. He says given their experience and rank, if they say the chief is a racist they should be taken seriously.

DOLAN: Racism is alive and well in America. We have not put the racism issue to rest, period.

ROWLANDS: Ken Nelson heads the NAACP chapter in Richmond. He says he knows the officers that filed the complaint and, given their experience, says it's hard to believe that they would lie about something this serious.

KEN NELSON, NAACP: Any time anyone speaks out against racism of this magnitude, it has to be serious, taken seriously. And I believe it's -- you know, it is sincere.

ROWLANDS: As a Richmond city councilman, Tom Butt helped hire Chief Magnus. He doesn't think the allegations are true.

TOM BUTT, RICHMOND CITY COUNCILMAN: Because I haven't seen any indication that he's that kind of person.

ROWLANDS: Neither do the people we talked to who used to work with Magnus back in North Dakota.

KEITH TERNES, FARGO, NORTH DAKOTA POLICE CHIEF: And I really think that the allegations are most likely based on resistance to some of the ideas and some of the change that Chris is trying to implement there.

ROWLANDS: Chief Magnus has denied the accusations. Because of the investigation, neither the officers nor the chief would agree to an interview with CNN. The officers, who are still working, are expected to file a lawsuit against the city some time next month.

BUTT: Regardless of how this turns out, nobody is going to win. It's not -- it's not a good thing for this city.

ROWLANDS: Ted Rowlands, CNN, Richmond, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Let's see what our panel has to say about this.

Joining me once again, Lauren Lake, Keith Boykin, Steve Malzberg.

So, Steve, do these black police officers have a case, or are they overreacting?

STEVE MALZBERG, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I don't see any way we could know that. I mean, he denies it. They say he did it. The people that he worked with in the past say they never saw any indication. The people in charge here say they don't believe it.

It's their word against his. So we have to wait.

Nobody is cooperating with any investigation as far as coming forward -- the cops or the man who is accused. It's very easy to cry racism. If he did it, it's going to be found out. If he didn't, then an injustice is being perpetrated against him.

ZAHN: We talked about a bunch of words here tonight that none of us should say, the "N" word, the "F" word, now the "J" word.

How incendiary is that? Frankly, a word that I have personally word in 20 years.

KEITH BOYKIN, AUTHOR, "BEYOND THE DOWN LOW": Well, the last time I remember hearing...

ZAHN: And I'm really old.

BOYKIN: I remember hearing the word actually in a Spike Lee film, "School Daze," back in the day. And he used it to show how black people sometimes use negative words against ourselves.

And it's a negative word, just like the "N" word is. It's something we should be concerned about.

And I kind of agree with what Steve was saying, too, that we don't necessarily know what happened here. But I don't necessarily agree that it's going to be found out if there was a racist incident here, because a lot of times racism today is very underneath the surface. We don't necessarily find out about it because people are much more clever about how to disguise it than they were in the past.

ZAHN: And there are critics of these black police officers saying, what the heck are you filing a suit for? All this does is continue to promote the chronic victimization of blacks.

LAUREN LAKE, ATTORNEY: Oh, you know what, Paula? As a defense attorney I go on shows constantly. And when I defend the alleged perpetrator, all I get was, "Don't blame the victim. Don't blame the victim."

Now suddenly people want to blame the alleged victim in this case. No, these men could possibly be victims of their police chief's racist beliefs. If he is a racist, if he is saying the "J" word, if he is having black police officers dance at police functions, OK, like minstrels, that's a problem.

And his views could directly reflect the ways in which he promotes in his own office. And...

MALZBERG: If -- if, and we showed with the Duke case...

LAKE: And you heard me say the word "if." You heard me say the word "if."

MALZBERG: Jesse Jackson...

LAKE: But if it is true -- I'll use "if" again, then he needs to be removed.

MALZBERG: Of course if it's true.

LAKE: "J" word and all.

MALZBERG: If it's true. And the "J" word aside, if he did everything else, it doesn't matter. But...

LAKE: And we need to know.

MALZBERG: ... Jesse Jackson came running down to Duke, gave the woman -- "The Rainbow Coalition is paying for her college education." I haven't heard him take it back yet even though she appears she made up the rape because now she doesn't -- we know what's going on there.

It's so easy to claim racism. We don't know who is telling the truth.

BOYKIN: But here's the problem, though. I don't know what's happening with the Duke case because that's still under investigation. But the reality is, sometimes things get out of control and people make false accusations. But a lot of times people make accurate accusations. And the few times when people make a false accusation, people use that as an excuse to justify all kinds of other racism that they claim doesn't exist.

LAKE: Right.

ZAHN: So we do know in this case what the truth is.

LAKE: Exactly.

ZAHN: But we do know that it is common for blacks to be passed over for promotions.

LAKE: Absolutely. And just like was already said, it's very hard to prove. Institutional racism, it's almost impossible to prove. It's like this evil lurking ghost. And you end up looking like the boy or girl that cried wolf. And everyone is looking at you like, oh, nothing's wrong with you until -- it doesn't come out in the wash, but in the dry, then you see. Oh, and then they go, oh, maybe she had a point there.

And that's what we don't want to happen, by underestimating these police officers claims...

MALZBERG: Every time someone is passed over a promotion...

LAKE: ... before there has been a thorough investigation.

MALZBERG: ... doesn't mean it's racist.

BOYKIN: Of course not. But...

LAKE: And just to correct you on this point, the Duke girl wasn't claiming racism. The Duke girl claimed she was rape.

MALZBERG: But the whole -- the media...

LAKE: The racist aspect became our discussion of the case.

MALZBERG: ... and Jesse Jackson. Right. Right.

LAKE: So, therefore, you can't say that -- she alleged she was raped.

MALZBERG: Nifong made it because of race, Jackson made it into race, the community made it into race.

LAKE: But my point is, is that victim, whether her claim was wrong or her whole case...

MALZBERG: She might have seen three rich boys and wanted to get money from them. Don't say it wasn't about race.

LAKE: And they might have seen one beautiful black girl and touched her the wrong way, but we don't know because there hasn't been a case. And I was a...

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: We're getting off on a tangent here. A tangent here. Hang on, hang on.

A final thought about this case some northern California. It's got to be brief.

BOYKIN: It always disturbs me when people say that there's no racism or that racism...

MALZBERG: I never said that.

ZAHN: No. He said we're not sure. It hasn't been proven.

BOYKIN: It always disturbs me when people try to challenge that because the reality is we live in a racist, sexist, (INAUDIBLE) homophobic...

MALZBERG: Black racists and white racists, yes.

LAKE: And the black racism is the result of 400 years of your racism and your privileges that you still have today. Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

LAKE: No, you have what your ancestors had...

MALZBERG: My ancestors came from Europe...

(CROSSTALK)

LAKE: And they came here willingly and they came here voluntarily. But ours did not.

ZAHN: Final word.

BOYKIN: And the thing is, you can't do anything about it until you acknowledge that there's a problem.

MALZBERG: Sure, there's a problem.

LAKE: There we go. And that's the good last word, is that you know there's a problem.

ZAHN: I think we're starting to at least raise awareness. And maybe it will go a small distance toward solving this problem...

BOYKIN: Let's hope so.

ZAHN: ... as long as we're talking about it.

LAKE: Yes.

ZAHN: Lauren, Keith and Steve, thank you. Glad to have you with us for the hour tonight.

LAKE: Thank you.

BOYKIN: Thank you.

ZAHN: Will you come back some time and play with me?

Oh, good. Yes. Come play in my playground.

Coming up next, she is one of the most beautiful women in the world. So why is Tyra Banks upset about being labeled "fat"?

We'll bring that story out in the open next.

Oh, Steve is shaking his head. What is she talking about? Do you think she's promoting her show?

A little bit later on, we're going to turn our attention to America's war heroes and a new $50 million center to help the wounded recover.

We'll be right back.

RETURN